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 Post subject: Re: Episode 25 & 26 - A Canterlot Wedding Part 1 and 2
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:08 am 
Royal Guard
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3k on the first day, good luck America.

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 Post subject: Re: Episode 25 & 26 - A Canterlot Wedding Part 1 and 2
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:42 am 
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HAVE NOT YET SEEN <cannot read thread>

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 Post subject: Re: Episode 25 & 26 - A Canterlot Wedding Part 1 and 2
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:05 am 
Wonderbolt
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Love is in bloom full song can be found here

Also. its over-analyzing time! incoming wall of text.
Spoiler:
OK, so we all know Twi's brother is Shining Armour, right? (I'd hope you'd know that...)
he's marrying a princess yada yada we've all seen the show.... moving on. Everyone grew up with childhood stories about a Knight in Shining armor rescuing the princess and basically saving the day, right? (If not, I feel bad for you because you had no childhood) In our current global society that's how things roll, brave Mc-Hero Man swoops in and saves the princess, Lady Hot-stuff, its been forced into our brains since we were born. same goes for which toys we were given as children, girls got barbie dolls and what ever generation of My little pony was going at the time and boys got action figures and the like. (you still with me? this all proves a point then blows your mind at the end, trust me.) its just the way things are. any child that plays with the other genders toys over their own is deemed weird by society because they went against the social norm.

now, enter MLP FiM before Bronys. it was a show for little girls aimed at selling toys. lets face it, it was. Hasbro had no idea of what they created at the time. it coincided with the accepted social norm that pink pony toys are for young girls, not boys.
ok now enter Bronys (huzzah! *much clapping*) Bronys went against the social norm and liked the show. maybe pink cartoon ponies are meant for everyone?

In these times we live in, what is viewed as the socially accepted norm is changing; Women are getting the same rights and pay as the men, even working jobs that were previously a male dominated role (front line troops, huge business CEOs etc). the gender lines are blurring.

enter MLP Fim again, this time its season 2, with the brony fandom in full swing. there are more adults watching MLP that there are children who fit its original target demographic. times have changed, no longer is it up to Mc-Hero Man to swoop in and save Lady Hotstuff. its time for the princess to save the knight (see where I'm going with this yet? stay with me)
So, Hasbro has noticed this change in the social norm, how its now ok for the boy to play with the ponies and the girl to rough it up with G.I Joe. So, to show this, in the final episode they went against the social norm and traditional story telling of old and had Princess Cadence save Shining Armour and thus save the day, instead of the more classical version of the knight saving the princess.

Hasbro knows that Bronys are going against what we were taught as children (the whole blue is for guys, pink is for girls thing, did you even read the start of this?) and has 'shouted out' to us for doing so by also shifting how the traditional story would go. (knight saves...you get it.)

so I believe Hasbro has acknowledged us for our ways and is telling us to keep it up and to ignore what is 'socially accepted' and do what we want, be our self. (this also ties loosely in with the fact that, for 3/4 of the two final episodes, Cadence is not 'being herself' (Queen Chrysalis) but at the end, she 'becomes herself' (the actual Cadence) and saves the day.)


Ta-da! this is what happened when I start to analyses things...
TL;DR:
Spoiler:
no.. you dont get a short version. I refuse to believe your that lazy. go back to the top and read it all.

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 Post subject: Re: Episode 25 & 26 - A Canterlot Wedding Part 1 and 2
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:46 am 
Wonderbolt
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Bumping-double post. because I've done some editing and I want people to read it.
(in retrospect, I should of just double posted what I edited...)

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 Post subject: Re: Episode 25 & 26 - A Canterlot Wedding Part 1 and 2
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:00 am 
Very Important Pony
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Nice post kay ;D

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 Post subject: Re: Episode 25 & 26 - A Canterlot Wedding Part 1 and 2
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:16 pm 
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TL:DR

I am lazy =D

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 Post subject: Re: Episode 25 & 26 - A Canterlot Wedding Part 1 and 2
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:38 pm 
Filly
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I think this has to be one of my favorite episodes, even though I can't help but nit-pick a few things:

Spoiler:
-It would have been cool if it turned out Twilight was sent a wedding announcement ages ago, but she never got it because it happened to be the letter that teenage dragon burned in "Dragon Quest."

-It was a little weird how Shining Armor was such a huge part of Twilight's life, but she apparently never bothered to mention him to her other friends until right now. You would think that since Twilight and he have still been hanging out with each other from time to time after Twilight moved to Ponyville, the topic would have come up sooner.

-I really don't like how the rest of the Mane 6 and Princess Celestia abandoned Twilight after she called out the fake Cadence. It seems really out of character for all of them, and that it was only done because the plot required Twilight to be alone so she could get captured.

-For that matter, it seems strange how Twilight would accuse Cadence based only on of the fact that 1) she was acting uncharacteristically rude and 2) she cast a spell on Shining Armor that made his eyes go all googly. Especially since the last episode had Twilight chastising Pinkie over accusing ponies without considering all the evidence.

-When Queen Chrysalis first mentioned how she and her changeling horde were invading Canterlot, I thought the twist was going to be that Shining Armor's shield was pointless, right before revealing that all the guests packed into the cathedral were in fact changelings. They could have had it so the reason Chrysalis imitated Cadence was because Shining Armor's love for her was the strongest, and she needed to bleed him dry to subdue Celestia (and then maybe go on to take her place). It just seems strange that a race of creatures whose whole deal screams "sabotage from within" would instead opt for a full-frontal assault.

-Part of me was hoping they would have had a gag in the middle of the changeling brawl where the Mane 6 accidentally beat each other up. The closest we get is having Twilight almost attack Applejack. Yeah, I know they did the same bit already in a PowerPuff Girls episode, but it would have been great in this episode too.

-Where the heck was Luna in all this?! I know they hang a lampshade on it at the end, but now more than ever it really does seem like Luna gets underused in this show compared to her (supposedly equal) sister.


Like I said, I know that's (almost) all pointless nitpicking. To balance that out, let me tell you what I like about the episode:
Spoiler:
-The music was pretty good. I don't usually like the musical bits on this show, but for the past couple of days I've been looping "This Day Aria" and "Love is in Bloom" on Youtube constantly.

-Spike demonstrates how appropriate it is for manly and swagful guys like him to play with small plastic ponies.

-I'm a sucker for stories about people fighting against impossible odds to save the ones they love.

-The Changeling Brawl. All of it. I like seeing ponies kicking butt. It's understandable why they can't have fight scenes all the time on this show, but in a way it makes it even cooler when they do get their fight on. My only complaint (besides the minor one listed above) was that Rarity should have had a bit in there. She was the only one without one.

-Even though she was criminally underused, I guess I should be happy that Luna made an appearance at all in the episode.

-Rarity's bouquet catching crazy face.


Also, now that the season is over, I figure now's a good time to look back on the season overall. It seems like the overarching theme of this season's Mane6-oriented episodes was exploring the opposite of what each character's Element stands for:

-Twilight's Element, Magic, could be interpreted as being about power and control. Twilight's episodes involve her being powerless ("It's About Time") and out of control ("Lesson Zero").
-Rarity's Element is Generosity, but her episodes spend a lot of time exploring her selfish side. Whether it be avoiding her friends to try and advance her own social status ("Sweet & Elite") or ignoring her sister to focus on her own wants and needs ("Sisterhooves Social"). Of course, they still bring it around and have her do the right thing in the end of each one.
-Applejack's all about Honesty, but her episodes involve secrecy ("The Last Roundup") and dishonesty (Flim and Flam in "The Super Speedy Cider Squeezy 6000").
-Fluttershy key trait is Kindness, but her have her cross the line between being assertive and being a jerk ("Putting Your Hoof Down"), and refusing to help friend in need because she can't see past her own fear ("Hurricane Fluttershy"). Like with Rarity, she does the right thing in the end (though she still eats Pinkie's cake during "MMMyster on the Friendship Express." FLUTTERJERK).
-Pinkie Pie's Element is Laughter, but her episodes involved a lot of seriousness, whether it was Pinkie herself getting serious ("Baby Cakes," "MMMystery on the Friendship Express"), or just having to deal with someone who is chronically serious ("A Friend in Deed").
-As for Rainbow Dash...I guess my theory falls apart with her. Loyalty was touched upon in "May the Best Pet Win," since she chose Tank over the faster, flashier pets because he was the one who was loyal to her in her time of need. However, her other two episodes were more about her massive ego than about disloyalty. "The Mysterious Mare Do Well" was about not letting your good deeds for others go to your head (though I guess you could say her friends betrayed her a little to teach her a lesson), and "Read It and Weep" was about not letting pride stop you from openly enjoying something that makes you happy.

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 Post subject: Re: Episode 25 & 26 - A Canterlot Wedding Part 1 and 2
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:44 pm 
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@Qallan
Are you telling me you've never had a friend where there was something that was a huge part of their life and they never told you about it? Even if you're totally open with your friends about everything, there's times where stuff just doesn't come up too often. Like Twilight Sparkle said, she doesn't get to see her brother that much anymore. Sounds like she may have only seen her brother once or twice since she moved to ponyville, if she saw him at all in that time.

It does seem quite out of character for the whole cast to ditch twilight in the wedding when you first watch it. But seriously, when someone's wedding day got ruined because some other person's accusations, and all those accusations got an explanation for why they are not true. Who are you going to side with? Keep in mind they don't know anything about the changelings, and they probably think no evil could get in the magic barrier that has tons of guards inside.

Twilight Sparkle overreacts and worries about stuff too much in quite a few episodes. The fact that she was suspicious of cadence does not surprise me at all. Pinkie's accusations made no sense whatsoever (except for the very end when she actually got it right, but at that point she had evidence), whereas Twilight's accusations have reasons behind them. If you knew someone awesome for a long time, then they suddenly insist on going by another name and say they don't remember you at all even though they spent a long time with you, you'd probably be suspicious too, along with the tons of other reasons to make her suspicious of cadence.

Changelings need to be subtle to get power. After they got in, I assume they were feeding off of some people off-screen so they could get away with just beating the crap out of everything because they already had more power than they know what they could with. The mane 6 are pretty good fighters (except fluttershy apparently), so they can hold out a little bit longer than the guards. However, I would agree that they should never reveal themselves and just farm all the people so they'd never have to worry about running out of love to feed on.

I think everyone was expecting the mane 6 to hurt each other. So I think they were just trying to throw the audience off by not being so predictable. However, they make it so one of them almost hits the other just so they actually remember that so it doesn't seem like some stupid thing they overlooked. Besides, just looking at the facial expressions should be enough for them to tell the difference apart from each other, they are good friends that hang out with each other a lot, whereas the changelings pretty much had the same facial expression.

As for Luna, one of 3 things
1. She was sleeping during the day, and she's a heavy sleeper. Her room is made out of tough stuff and/or in an area the changelings didn't think to go to so they couldn't get to her
2. She was busy kicking the crap out of the changelings off-screen.
3. She had to leave Canterlot on some special duty that day. She wouldn't be needed to guard for the wedding since the wedding would be over that day.



The Fluttershy eating the cake is likely a reference to all the crime mysteries where it'd be the cute and/or unexpected person commiting the crime.
It's stretching it a bit, but your theory doesn't quite fall apart with Rainbow Dash.


@Kayniner
TL:DR is "Gender roles in society are disappearing" mostly. With a little bit of "Hasbro thinks we should be ourselves".
I think society is getting to the point where people will accept other people for being different. It's not there yet, but I do believe MLP:FiM has sped it up for a lot of people. However there will always be places where people don't approve of the ways of others. It will be this way until everyone is able to have easy access to communicate with everyone else.


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 Post subject: Re: Episode 25 & 26 - A Canterlot Wedding Part 1 and 2
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:34 pm 
Filly
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Again, let me say I'm really just being nitpicky for the heck of it. None of these points are enough to really take away my enjoyment of the episode.

-Regarding Twilight never mentioning Shining Armor, I just figured she would have been keen to introduce him to her friends or vice versa, or even just mention it. I guess the root of my complaint is just that all of a sudden Twilight happens to have a brother that nobody knew existed prior to this episode.

-I'm not saying they all should have sided with Twilight after she scared fake!Cadence off, but you'd think somebody would have stuck around to ask her what the heck was going on with her and try to help her work through her apparent issues with her brother getting married.

-What I was getting at with the whole wild accusation point was that Twilight, of all ponies, should know the importance of making accusations only when you can present solid evidence to back it up. Yeah, she personally was dead certain fake!Cadence was evil, but given how her friends already brushed her off once she probably shouldn't have assumed everyone would just take her word for it now. Also, it's funny how both the first and last episodes of the season shared the moral of "don't brush your friends off when they come to you with a concern."

-I guess I'm just curious why the plan was to have only Chrysalis infiltrate, yet have all the other changelings smash their face into Shining Armor's shield until Chrysalis brought the shield down.

-Regarding the lack of Mane 6 infighting, it's not that big of a complaint, it just would have been cool to see. But since apparently none of the regular changelings talk, either, I agree it'd be a stretch to make them fall for it.

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 Post subject: Re: Episode 25 & 26 - A Canterlot Wedding Part 1 and 2
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 3:49 am 
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Yeah I kinda expected at least one of the others to stay by Twilight too.

The evidence that Twilight had seemed pretty solid. I'm not really sure how much more evidence you'd need to prove someone was "evil in disguise" than that without other people witnessing it. There are ways to make evidence not seem like evidence, Chrysalis did a pretty good job at that.
Maybe I'm just missing something, and that I'm too sleepy right now.

I suppose she thinks that if you do a full on frontal assault with your minions, they wont expect an inside job to be done? =)


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